I brought a stolen bike from a dealer

moto-moto · Post by **moto-moto** » 02 Mar 2010, 11:05

Just discovered that my bike has a tampered with frame and engine number and guess what? It doesn't match the log book.
Bought it from a dealer seven years ago and did less than 500 miles, then stored it. Took it to a MOT and they pointed out the problem, so now I can't MOT it or sell it. I have full records and a receipt and want the bike shop to take it back, as it is their problem, Sale of Goods Act etc. Does anyone know a lawyer who can sort this out for me, or have any advice on this problem.

I am gutted, I never thought to check the VIN or engine number when I purchased it.
Cheers

Post by **fallenmikethebike** » 02 Mar 2010, 17:28

7 Years, Hhmmm, well, technically, the bike in question is probably by now the property of an insurance company.
I would initially approach the dealer, in a friendly, how can we sort this amicably frame of mind, taking with you all your supporting paper work [that you hold onto for grim life].
Unless, however, your receipt has the engine, and frame numbers that match the bike, you could well be up she-ite creek, without a paddle, because all the dealer has to say is, "well that's not the combination of engine and frame I sold to you"
If he refuses to play ball, you may well then have to involve plod, who, could become your best friend, in this instance, again, setting out the time line, and circumstances.
A grim lesson to learn, but a wake up call to all.
Mike

Post by **delvey91** » 02 Mar 2010, 17:48

sell it to me!

Post by **Berm basher** » 02 Mar 2010, 18:41

Having just read Boundy's post viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5566 maybe breaking it is the best option. I once bought a bike that had outstanding HP, the police weren't really interested and suggested I should just sell it as I bought it in good faith. If you give details of the bike, you may get a flurry of offers for bits. BB.

Post by **delvey91** » 02 Mar 2010, 18:58

No dont break it sell it to me!

jontymiller · Post by **jontymiller** » 02 Mar 2010, 19:36

Surely you could sell the bike to an off roader, There has got to be someone who just needs a bike for messing about on the weekend. You must just remember to mention the infomation about the frame number,etc. Surely you don't have to strip the bike down to sell as parts, what a shame.

Post by **fallenmikethebike** » 02 Mar 2010, 20:23

Well, yes breaking it could be one way out of your predicament, though not one way any of us could condone, but, if you are so inclined, can I have first refusal on the wheels

.

Mike

moto-moto · Post by **moto-moto** » 02 Mar 2010, 21:48

Thanks for your input, you lot are great. Been on the phone to the dealer who is luckily still in business. He accepts that the trail does lead totally back to him, and the evidence is overwhelmingly in my favour. Now the problem is what to do now. He says I should send in the details of the VIN, and the engine number (which has been overstamped and is illegible) to the DVLA who will give me a new log book and then I can MOT and sell the bike.
If life were this simple? Surely the DVLA won't just change it otherwise it would be seriously easy for bike theives.
I then feel that the bike will be down-valued, because would anyone pay top whack for a bike with a probably tampered VIN and an illegible engine number. Who knows its origins?
I reckon that the dealer should compensate me, by taking it back at market value, but what is market value? I just want my bike to be legit, not much to ask, and i did not expect this from a dealer.

The bike is a CRM 250 AR, with 6,000 on the clock (for what that is worth) less than 1,000 done in last seven years (I broke my shoulder and then put it into storage). Goes like a cracker, the downside is that it is purple.

Post by **delvey91** » 03 Mar 2010, 09:32

For the bike as it is as the moment with the tampered numbers i would give you a grand. If it was all legit you could probaly get 1500-1600

AlanH · Post by **AlanH** » 03 Mar 2010, 17:04

The problem is, if you know the bike is not legit, you can't just get shot of it as it may well be stolen goods (can't think of any other reason to tamper with numbers). If you knowingly sell stolen goods (even if you paid a fair price for it and have a receipt) you are committing a criminal offence. If I was you I'd get some legal advice and see whether you have a claim against the dealer. I suspect that you do as they should not be selling stolen goods and therefore the problem will then be theirs.

Anyone buying a bike knowing the numbers don't match and that it may well be the property of an insurance company will also be guilty of handling stolen goods. Be very careful about making offers to buy a dodgy bike on a public forum as you are soliciting a criminal act and are easily traceable.

Post by **knackeredMk1** » 03 Mar 2010, 22:36

moto-moto - You need to get some legal advice and sort it out. DVLA may in the end be able to give you a new frame number and you get it stamped onto the frame. It has happened before.

If you choose to sell or break the bike this site will not be able to support any promotion of the bike or parts until you get the legal situation sorted. It would make the site party to a criminal offence.

moto-moto · Post by **moto-moto** » 04 Mar 2010, 00:07

Thank you very much for your responses. Of course I had not considered the fact that I am now knowingly holding goods that may well be stolen. Whether anyone can trace them to anything is another matter, but your points are taken onboard, my lil' bike is quite possibly owned by an insurance company.
I will contact lawyers and of course the old bill and report back to tell you what happens.

All the best
: (

Post by **admin** » 04 Mar 2010, 07:07

I will back up what steve says here. I am sorry to hear you bought a hooky bike, but if you do decide to sell / break it, then please do it away from here.
However in reality its a private site not a business, and frankly the worst thing that happens is i switch it off. But i wont allow someone to make that decision for me. you get the idea.
Get it sorted legally one way or the other, if you get no joy then name and shame by all means.

Selling the bike now is NOT an option. with all the best will in the world, the person that buys it assures you its for farm only use, then it gets nicked again, or he sells it then next person gets stopped and so on, i can assure you the person you sell it to will point the feds back in your direction, loyalties mean nothing when the feds come knocking over a stolen bike or parts.
get the dealer to sort, if they dont then be prepared to take them to the cleaners, i bet they wont go that far but they may play a waiting game with you.
also bear in mind a tampered number is likely to force a Q plate, as such not worth a carrott, and a pain to insure too.
On the flip side it will have been written down years ago, you may want to make it rather scruffy and incomplete

so if they send an an inspector to view its worth 200 quid tops which your offer should be around if trying to buy it back legally.

Without meaning to kick you when down, but why the hell didnt you check the numbers or HPI before you bought ? i assume it was a couple of grand or more. i just went to buy another NC30 for 400 quid, still checked it though and sure enough - hooky !

moto-moto · Post by **moto-moto** » 04 Mar 2010, 11:08

Noted!
Didn't check when I brought the bike as:
1. I purchased from respectable dealer.
2. Never had the sense to request the log book as was just given the new buyer suppliment.
3. Mot cert that came with the bike has the same frame no. as the bike, and so did not think to ever cross ref. back to the log book.
4. Most stupidly of all never checked that the receipt cross checked to bike, log book or MOT.

Ho hum.

Post by **admin** » 04 Mar 2010, 11:14

mate i have done similar once. we live and learn, and you wont do it again for sure.
keep us posted with how you get on though and best of luck with the dealer. at the end of the day he's liable.

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